Podcast Transcript

Rob Birdsell: Hello and welcome to The Next Class. I'm Rob Birdsell, your host, joined by my two co-hosts, Erin Barisano and Kent Hickey.
And we have a special guest today, our producer Carlos, who is working in the background, and we asked him to come join us today since he's been on all these and he's heard them all. looking forward to his reflection. But Erin, let's start with your season six wrap up. Tell me your takeaways from this past school year.

Erin Barisano: Well, I think um it gives me a lot of hope for uh for the future of Catholic education. And that, you know, that the current state we're always going to have some challenges but looking ahead, recognizing that leadership is changing and how our partners are responding to that. I really, really loved our conversation with Steve Cheeseman from NCA and just again the way responding to the needs of schools trying to remain relevant, but also really focusing and honing in on that spirituality piece. I think over the years that's just a piece that's fallen by the wayside and so to really, you know put that at the forefront of all that we do and the lens through which we see everything and do everything has has given me a lot of hope. And then of course, our our conversation with, Ashling, Kelly Preston who at the time was with the USCCCB. She's no longer there, but still working hard with on that federal school choice law now. You know that's been passed and I think we have 30 states that have opted in. So again, a lot of grassroots stuff, boots on the ground trying to get our governors to opt into that. But again I think just great hope. Great hope for the for the future of Catholic education here in our country and opportunities around us. So great conversations.

Rob Birdsell: And around the educational choice for children act: two democratic governors have opted in which...

Erin Barisano: They have! They have...

Kent Hickey: What two? What two are those?

Erin Barisano: New York and Colorado. Yeah. New York was just last week actually. So that  you know those are that's that's a big blue state. So that that gives the rest of us in in big blue states some hope that maybe we can mobilize and influence our our governors to opt in as well.

Rob Birdsell: I give those two credit. It's almost like they gave the others permission.

Erin Barisano: Right?

Rob Birdsell: And some... She especially in New York had some great language around why and that it is not taking away and if anything it's more funding for public schools for tutoring and after school activities.

Erin Barinsano: That's just it. This is something for all families, right? And this is something that can can improve educational access for all students.
And again, we need to stop looking at it as a partisan issue because it's really... This is something that could unify us in in terms of educating our our young people.

Kent Hickey: It's it's not a zero- sum game, right? And it'll be interesting, as you said, for permission. And of course, Erin and I, we're both on the West Coast here. I'm in Washington State. Erin's in California. We have Oregon in between. Maybe we'll give them permission. I'll just say this. Their unions are so strong, at least in Washington state. It's could just be hard to kind of overcome that. But hey, maybe they can if they start recognizing it's for all children. It helps public schools and such. Maybe some governors will do the right thing. And matter of fact, the governor of Washington State here educated a Catholic high school that I used to work at, years ago, Bishop Blanchett, has I believe he, you know, so anyway, there's some connections to Catholic education here, I think he likely knows the value of it, but boy, those teacher unions are strong.

Erin Barisano: Yeah. Yeah. But again, I think with that move last week with with New York, that's  you know, kind of kind of amped us up for what what lies ahead.

Rob birdsell: As Father Folio. He says, "Para los Ninos." With that, Kent, let's turn to you. Your reflections on this past school year.

Kent Hickey: Well, I'll tell you what. On our on various podcasts, right? And, you know, Rob and I, we were talking earlier. Great podcasts throughout the year. I'll just say the one I've been reflecting upon the most is actually our soccer coach.

Erin Barisano: Soccer! I'm not sure any of you are going to say that. Yeah.

Kent Hickey: Our Houston Dash coach, right Rob?

Rob birdsell: Yes.

Kent Hickey: Such a good guy. And one of the reasons why, is I've been kind of noticing just doing some of the consulting work in schools like all our schools, our diocese, they all have issues, you know, none of none of them have reached... They're striving toward the kingdom of god. They're not quite there. They all have issues. But I'm struck by those areas. Like I'll just say Erin, your your diocese under your leadership, you know, you have issues too, but you're always looking for solutions, you know, and doing something different. And that's what struck me about that interview was he was one of the concepts he used was, and this was outrageous value. Outrageous value. And, I think our schools have outrageous value. And I've kind of been thinking more about how reactionary we can often be in Catholic education. And I've also been thinking about ILEE. You know, the group that we're so familiar with and we, you know, with the Institute of Leadership and Entrepreneurship and Education. Entrepreneurship is linked to outrageous value. And the outrageous value could be how valued driven our schools are at a time when maybe our culture is moving more to understanding and appreciating values more. I think we're actually turning toward that. So great podcasts throughout the year. One of the podcasts I'm thinking about is one we're talking about the declining enrollment, declining birth rate. So there's a call to action for schools. Maybe the solution is what is your school? What is your diocese's outrageous value and not just being reactionary and not just doing the same old same old?

Rob Birdsell: In in another moment, Fabrice had another great line where he said "Build environments people want to stay in".

Kent Hickey: Programs of attraction. He built a program. Fabrice built a program of attraction. Schools programs of attraction. Why are you different? Sorry.

Rob Birdsell: And that students students want to stay. I mean build and he built intentionally. My daughter was a product of him and she wanted to be there. She's also a soccer soccer field brat and so... But he built an environment she wanted to be. And he also said start with self-awareness which I think is the key to leadership you know that if if you're not doing it for the right reasons if it's not "Para los Niños", it's going to be a challenge.

Kent Hickey: Well he had Fabrice has some connections to Spain in some ways you know right? and the self-nowledge St.Teresa Vavala over and over again, right?

Erin Barisano: I was going to say that's a St. Teresa and it's very ignation as well, right? I mean, it's that that self-awareness and so no, I just, I love that outrageous value though, Ken. And I do think I think the pendulum is shifting and and swinging and I do think that we're in this time now where our you know our Catholic schools and that Catholicity that value proposition would take a backseat to academic success to athletics things like that. But I think people are looking for more. I do I think absolutely they're hungry for it. And  and what are we doing? We need to lead first with our Catholic lens.

Kent Hickey: Yeah. One of the schools we're at where we talk about getting into that right college is a happy byproduct of the education you'll receive which is really counter to a lot of the private schools but they were saying we're here to get you into X college that's not the goal of Catholic education. How about getting into heaven

Erin Barisano: Yeah, amen.

Rob Birdsell: The longtime president market high. Kent, before your time father Bill Doran.

Kent Hickey: I knew  Bill Doran.

Rob Birdsell:Bill Doran freshman orientation with the parents They're all in the gym, Market High gym. And he simply got up there and he said, "If you chose Market Hide to get your child into heaven or into hell or into Harvard, you chose the wrong place. That school is up about 25 miles north of here. But if you chose Market High to get your child into heaven, you chose the right place. And I still, you know, how many years later still remember him saying that and striking court, you know, we're not about Harvard, we're about heaven. Two other just brief ones that come to mind for me. You alluded to it, but Peter Stokes from Heron Consulting talking about the state of higher ed. If one of our listeners has not listened to that one, I really recommend school leaders listen to it. It's about the fragility in higher ed that I think we all know about now and the number of schools that are on the brink and what happens if you send one of your students or one of your children to a school that closes. It's a 75% chance they will not complete college. And pretty jarring data that he shared, and just a great explanation of where higher ed is at today which you see a lot in the news but he really goes into the detail. Any thoughts Kent on Peter before I go to my last one?

Kent Hickey: No. Well, the only thought is that often times, colleges are bellweather or canary in the coal mine whatever you call it for for high schools. And so we're seeing that already right with birth rate and such but it just goes back to outrageous value again. So you know diminishment you know we look at the miracle of loaves and fishes it's all about scarcity and abundance right so there yeah there's some issues there but I think recoiling and just re reacting like the one response would be well send them away Jesus, we don't have enough. But outrageous value or such these things say no, we can do this. Why don't we why don't we try to do something with this so I I agree with you Rob that's the one people should go back to high school people grade school people should go back to that is happening now.

Erin Barisano: Yeah. And I think that the counter to that was was one of the earlier podcasts with Marco Clark, from Holy Cross College again, a small liberal arts college that really has, you know created that place where where kids want to be and really making making a go of it while while we're seeing these small colleges across the country, you know, go under, and kind of fold and close their doors. This is this is a place that is that is thriving and that's under his leadership. So again, I think a great counter too, that it can happen, that these places can thrive, they can be really special places for our our graduates from from our schools and that outrageous value. I just... That's yeah, that's a great one to keep going back to.

Rob Birdsell: Well, and it all comes back to leadership. Marco is one of the best out there. Has been for many years whether at high school or the Holy Cross Institute now at Holy Cross College at Notre Dame.Which gets me to the final one. Brandon Jacobs formerly of Carne Sando talking about the evolution of leadership and what boards and executive committees should be aware of when they're doing searches which leads to our final segment here that will lead to next year. But before we do that, Carlos, you've been with us all season. Would love to hear your thoughts on, from your perspective, what was was interesting to you or jumped out at you as our producer.

Carlos Cardenas: Oh, well, thank you, Rob. Well, I would definitely love to remember this time where you may remember this story that Steve Cheeseman told us about his favorite teacher. You know, the one about the teacher that made one of their students go back and walk the right way. And that I really love that, about that story because it reminds us of how you can do things in life. Like you know there is the wrong way to do things and the right way to do things and for everything that you want to do in lifeyou can apply that philosophy.

Rob Birdsell: Yeah I remember that story Carlos that was a great story. Yeah I love that one. I think it was an old nun.

Erin Barisano: Yeah I think it was.

Rob Birsell: Yeah.

Carlos Cardenas: And she was actually his teacher. Right.

Erin Barisano: Right. Yeah.

Rob Birdsell: Good. Well, Carlos, thank you for all you do for this podcast and for helping us make it look easy. So, let's take a brief pause and get a word in from our sponsor.

 

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Rob Birdsell: Okay, welcome back to The Next Class. Let's transition to next year and, we're very excited to share with you how we're going to open the season in August. It's going to be an exciting two-part podcast. And Kent, you're going to be doing the first part. Do you want to talk about the first part?

Kent Hickey: Yeah, the first part and the topic for both is succession planning and the this wonderful man Rich Bart who's been a a chair of a nativity school up here in Seattle. But extremely bright guy and you know MIT grad as I tell him, you know, he didn't get into Marquette so MIT was kind of his fallback school. But great guy and such a good writer. So anyway, he's written this white paper and it is very practical and it's very much grounded in Catholic tradition, but it brings succession planning to the level of intentionality and detail and purposefulness, that we really need to have in all of our schools and all of our systems. So I think by launching this next year, as we begin, I'm hoping every actually every leader in the country will watch this because and then and then refer to the white paper that that Rich has written, because a great way to start next year would actually be to have a good discussion at the board or with others to say what are we looking in terms of succession planning? Do it when it's hopeful. Final thing I'll say about that. Here's the image that he used. And I used to do, you know, when I practiced law, I used to do estate planning. And the image that or the example that he uses is estate planning is not ever on the front burner of people, right? I mean, let's go do our wills. Yeah. When you're 30 years old, you know, or something like that. But the fact of the matter it's really important to do estate planning when things are going well because when it's being used, things aren't going well. And I used to tell people when I did probate is people are asked to do things at the exact wrong time in their lives to do it when they're having all these difficulties. It's the same thing in succession planning. Is that if it takes if succession planning takes you're building the airplane in the air, you know, kind of deal, it's really not going to go that well because there's been no plan beforehand. But if my lord one day the, you know, a school leader gets hit by that beer truck, and it could be other things too. If there isn't a plan in place, then there hasn't been good leadership really in place at the school or board level. So that's one of the one of them and I believe you know and there's the other the other one too. We have we have some practitioners on do we not?

Rob Birdsell: Yes. So part one will be that digging into Rich's white paper which you'll be able to get through ILEE's website. We'll have it up there very soon at ILEE connect.org and also Catholic Education Services will be distributing it so that you can read that ahead. Then you get to see Rich and talk to him and then then we thought it'd be great to get a couple practitioners. So Erin, we had a conversation just yesterday. You want to tell us?

Erin Barisano: We did with let's see, Amanda Livermore, she's at Christo Rey, Orlando. And Dave Mason in Tucson at a nativity Crysto Rey school. And again, just practitioners, what what does this look like in action and in practice? And oh my gosh, I was blown away by the things that they have in place and the conversations that they have for succession planning because um recognizing that as leaders, it's not about you. It's about this mission and this mission is bigger than any of us. And so, to be good stewards of that mission, we need to be having these conversations and have these plans in place. So, just a fascinating a super inspirational conversation and and again that white paper is really really practical. But also just framing this idea of succession planning as an act of stewardship I think was was was a really powerful takeaway for me.

Rob Birdsell: Yeah. The humility that they both shared with, you know, building this plan when it was going well. And Dave, actually, the Lasalian brothers, all their schools in August, they meet, the president meets with the board and gives them two names that would be interims if, if he were hit by the bus, ad and the board has to approve the two names. And so just like that thoughtful planning of not one but here are two people that I'm nominating to be my interim not my successor because, you know he also rich goes into very clear the job of the president is not to find his successor,  is to find the successor of the staff it's the board who is to find the successor of the president. So very clear roles and some of the blurring discussion was interesting but great discussion with two outstanding school presidents. We look forward to dropping these in August to kick off the new year. Any closing thoughts for season six?

Kent Hickey: Well... Closing thoughts in terms of what's coming up or what what are you looking at? I I was thinking I was I want to ask what Erin Barisano's doing this summer. That's what I didn't know that, I you know I well we can talk about that but I I want to know what Carlos is doing this summer too.

Erin Barisano: Yeah. So the funny thing is my, one of my sisters just asked me yesterday. She said so so when when do you finish? And I thought she meant you know for for the day I said oh I'll be be home around you know six o'clock. And she, no when when do you finish your work? I said my I never finished my work. And she said don't you have July off? And I laugh I laughed out loud because I said I haven't done that in 20 years since I've been in administration. I haven't had a you know a summer break. I said I'm a normal person with with a crew vacation and all that. But, we are, my husband and I are going to Cancun for a for a week. In in June. Yeah. Our son is graduating high school in a couple weeks and so, we're going to celebrate the  end of the K12 journey for us.

Carlos Cardenas: Excellent.

Rob Birdsell: Carlos, what's going on?

Carlos Cardenas: Oh, well, I don't really have plans for this summer. I mean, probably I will just keep working here.

Kent Hickey: Hey, nice Rob. Nice. Why don't you give Carlos a little break there? That's what I'm hearing. So, more bricks, less straw.

Erin Barisano: And Kent, what about you?

Kent Hickey: Well, I want to since you mentioned about uh the school stuff, Erin, you know, I'm doing another I'm doing a part-time gig as a transitional president. This is my second time doing that stuff, which actually relate to the succession planning when we talk about it. But um this is for the Fresno schools. Second time with that dioscese. Love the people there. One of your colleagues, Joan Buchard, there is wonderful. But  I noticed that the high school there Memorial they they at least have a rule the week of July 4th, no one can be on campus. Everything is shut down. And there used to be years ago that July schools would shut down. And I think it's really be I would encourage everyone out there who particularly as a school leader to make sure you are literally shutting down your school for one or two weeks in July with minimal presence. But anyway, but what I'll be doing in July, gosh, Erin, thank you for bringing it up. I will will be returning to Appamatics this summer. Anyone who's heading to Southwest Virginia in my role as John Dennett as I do living history there, where I talk to people who visit the site of the surrender during the Civil War. What I'll just briefly mention about that is probably my 15th year doing it. When I interviewed with the park service to see if I could be a historical interpreter, the the two park rangers were Bert and Ernie. And Bert and Ernie had me try my southern accent, you know, as a character. And when I was done, they said, "Okay, you're going to play a northern newspaper reporter." So I play a northern newspaper reporter, John Dennett, and I'll be back there in early July.
Anyone coming out to Appamatics. Love to see you. What's going on with you, Rob? Besides making Carlos work all summer.

Rob Birdsell: We I'm excited in June to be leading with Erin one of her school's leadership team retreats and then I will be leading the dioscese of Orlando's president and principal retreat and then we'll be launching cohort 5 at the end of June. So, like Carlos, I'm working most of June. Right.

Carlos Cardenas:  Good to know.

Rob Birdsell: Yes. We'll find some time to head up to Door County. Susie and my wife and I. We've got a a great place that takes dogs but no kids under 14. And at our stage in life, it's a perfect spot. Okay. Well, thank both of you for your moderating of this and hosting of this conversation. Carlos, for all you do for us. To our listeners, thank you for another season. We will be back with se season 7 in August with succession planning two-part podcast. And until then, we hope you all have a restful summer. Close the school down for a little bit. Kent, Erin, final closing thoughts.

Ketn Hickey: Well, thank you, Rob, for inviting us to be partners with you. Appreciate Carlos your professionalism and care throughout this time. Great season. Already excited about the next season and hope everyone out there who are listening or viewing these podcasts have a blessed summer and really do take care of yourself this summer. Give self-care is an important thing.

Erin Barisano: Self-care is an important thing. And so yeah, same thing as as Kent said, thanks to Rob, to Carlos. Rob, we're going to be starting year three together, so that'll be fun. And yeah, just wishing everyone a blessed and peaceful summer.

Rob Birdsell: Thank you to all of our listeners. If you've enjoyed this season, like us, share it with your friends and family, your school colleagues, and we'll see you next season at The Next Class.